Author Topic: Vrouwe justitia kijkt soms even de andere kant op...  (Read 11321 times)

Chatt zie arif

« on: 28/02/2010 om 12:46:51 »


Europa terughoudend over moord Dubai



(Novum/AP) - Na de mysterieuze moord op Hamas-leider Mahmoud al-Mabhouh vorige maand lijkt het of Europese landen alles behalve haast hebben met een onderzoek naar de potentiële moordenaar, of moordenaars. Met name springen die landen eruit, waarvan de politie zegt dat het spoor van de vermoedelijke daders daar begint en eindigt: Zwitserland, Italië, Frankrijk, Duitsland en Nederland.

De terughoudendheid in deze landen om de moord te onderzoeken heeft er mogelijk mee te maken dat de moord werd uitgevoerd door de inlichtingendienst van een bevriende natie, Israël. De joodse staat identificeerde Al-Mabhouh eerder al als een belangrijke smokkelaar van wapens naar de heersers van Hamas in de Gazastrook.

Volgens deskundigen kan arrestatie van de moordenaars -of zelfs maar het vinden van meer belastend bewijsmateriaal- tot groot politiek verlies leiden.

"Ik denk dat het in het politieke belang van bepaalde landen is niet al te zeer betrokken te raken in deze zaak", zegt Victor Mauer van het Centrum voor Veiligheidsstudies in Zürich. "Een land als Duitsland onderhoudt speciale betrekkingen met Israël vanwege de geschiedenis en zal daarom geen onderzoek willen verrichten."

De procureur-generaal van Zwitserland liet weten in deze zaak niet over 'bewijzen te beschikken die een onderzoek rechtvaardigen', ondanks dat de politie van Dubai, waar de moord plaatsvond, volhoudt dat acht verdachten vanuit Dubai naar Zürich waren gevlucht.

Ook in Nederland en Italië wordt geen onderzoek ingesteld naar zes verdachten die naar Amsterdam en Rome vluchtten. Alle drie landen zeggen geen officieel verzoek om hulp te hebben ontvangen vanuit Dubai, hoewel het emiraat Interpol heeft verzocht arrestatiebevelen uit te vaardigen tegen elf verdachten.

Frankrijk onderzoekt alleen het vermoedelijke gebruik van Franse paspoorten door verdachten van de moord. Twee van hen landden op 20 januari in Parijs, waarna het spoor doodliep. Ook Duitsland onderzoekt eventueel misbruik van Duitse paspoorten, maar voert geen onderzoek uit naar de verdachten van de liquidatie, omdat geen misdaad is gepleegd in Duitsland. Wel keerden vier verdachten na de moord terug in Frankfurt.

Ook Michael Boyle, van het instituut voor strategische studies van de Schotse Universiteit van St. Andrews, denkt dat de Europese landen hun betrekkingen met Israël niet willen compliceren. Dat het misbruik van de paspoorten wordt onderzocht, vindt hij logisch. Als het 'gebruik van Europese paspoorten zo doorgaat, lopen Europese burgers risico's', zegt hij.




Wat een farce!
« Last Edit: 28/02/2010 om 12:50:46 by Chatt le Mal Barré »

« Reply #1 on: 28/02/2010 om 13:01:24 »


Volgens deskundigen kan arrestatie van de moordenaars -of zelfs maar het vinden van meer belastend bewijsmateriaal- tot groot politiek verlies leiden.

"Ik denk dat het in het politieke belang van bepaalde landen is niet al te zeer betrokken te raken in deze zaak", zegt Victor Mauer van het Centrum voor Veiligheidsstudies in Zürich. "Een land als Duitsland onderhoudt speciale betrekkingen met Israël vanwege de geschiedenis en zal daarom geen onderzoek willen verrichten."

Wat een farce!

Dit verklaart een hoop. Altijd die politieke geschiedenis!

Ewa ja, we leven in een democratische rechtstaat waar iedereen gelijk is, nietwaar?

« Reply #2 on: 28/02/2010 om 13:02:33 »
In Nederland hadden ze het te druk met dit. http://www.amazigh.nl/awar/index.php?topic=13924.0

Chatt zie arif

« Reply #3 on: 28/02/2010 om 13:39:41 »
Dit verklaart een hoop. Altijd die politieke geschiedenis!

Ewa ja, we leven in een democratische rechtstaat waar iedereen gelijk is, nietwaar?

Ja,maar sommigen zijn net iets gelijker dan anderen.

« Reply #4 on: 28/02/2010 om 13:53:36 »
Ja,maar sommigen zijn net iets gelijker dan anderen.

Goh, dat meen je? Staan echt sommigen boven de wet? Zo wat was ik naïef zeg.


« Reply #5 on: 14/03/2010 om 22:22:07 »
Timeline / Dubai assassination and its aftermath

Dubai is seeking at least 26 people it suspects of involvement in the assassination of a Hamas official in a killing police say they are near certain was an Israeli hit.

Police said Hamas military commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh's killers travelled to Dubai on fraudulent European passports.

Following is timeline of the killing and its aftermath:

JAN. 18, 2010

Members of a suspected hit squad begin to arrive in Dubai and spread out to various hotels in the city.

JAN. 19, 2010

Mabhouh arrives in Dubai from Damascus at 3:20 p.m, a stopover on a journey that was meant to take him to Sudan and China.

Suspected members of the hit squad follow Mabhouh to a Dubai luxury hotel, where he checks in under an assumed name.

Two suspects in tennis gear follow Mabhouh into the hotel lift to make note of his room number, after which another calls the hotel to book the room opposite.

Mabhouh goes out to two of Dubai's malls, has a meal and buys a pair of shoes.

Suspected hit squad members enter Mabhouh's room while he is out.

Mabhouh returns to his hotel room at 8:25 p.m.

Less than 10 minutes later, the suspects are seen leaving his room.

Fewer than 10 minutes pass before some suspects leave the hotel for the airport, boarding flights to destinations including Germany, France and Hong Kong.

JAN. 20, 2010

Mabhouh's body is found by hotel staff.

Hamas's political leadership issues a statement saying Mabhouh died of a sudden illness, while its military wing says Mabhouh died of a sudden health setback "the causes of which we are investigating."

JAN. 28, 2010

Mabhouh's body is returned to Damascus.

JAN. 29, 2010

Mabhouh is buried at a Palestinian refugee camp outside Damascus. Thousands of mourners attend his funeral.

A senior Hamas official says Israel killed Mabhouh in Dubai. Dubai police say they cannot rule out Mossad involvement and say most of the suspects had European passports.

Mabhouh's brother says he died of strangulation after receiving an electric shock.

JAN. 31, 2010

Israeli security sources say Mabhouh played a key role in smuggling Iranian-funded arms to Gaza but decline to comment on accusations Israel was behind his death.

Hamas says Mabhouh was targeted by Israel for his role in smuggling "special weapons" to the Gaza Strip.

FEB. 15, 2010 - Dubai police say they are seeking 11 suspects with European passports and publish closed-circuit video of the suspected killers. Two Palestinians are in custody, suspected of providing logistical support.

FEB. 16-FEB.17, 2010

Six foreign-born Israelis who shared names with suspected members of the hit squad deny involvement and say their identities have been stolen.

Israel's foreign minister says use of those identities by hit squad not a proof of Mossad's involvement.

FEB. 18, 2010

Britain, Ireland summon Israeli ambassadors over the use of fraudulent British and Irish passports. Britain urges Israel to cooperate fully with its investigation.

Dubai's police chief is quoted as saying he is near certain Israel was behind the killing.

FEB. 20, 2010

A Hamas official tells a Jordanian newspaper that the movement has launched an investigation to try to discover "how the Mossad was able to carry out the operation."

FEB. 22, 2010

The European Union condemns the use of fraudulent EU passports. EU foreign ministers said the killing was "profoundly disturbing" and that its citizens' rights had been violated.

FEB. 23, 2010

The UAE identifies four more suspects who carried fraudulent British and Irish passports, and says the cause of death was ruled as suffocation.

FEB. 24, 2010

Dubai police identify 15 more suspects in the killing, bringing the total to 26, and say they believe still more people may have been involved
24 Februari 2010

Haaratz

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152031.html?
« Last Edit: 14/03/2010 om 23:09:11 by incognito »

« Reply #6 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:07:01 »
Niet incognito is dom, maar deze zionisten zijn een beetje dom geweest - op zijn Amerikaans gezegd: een beetje clumsy - om met hun kop op tv te komen. Dit gaat namelijk pijn doen bij de Israelische overheid en ook bij sommigen hier op dit forum. En wat betreft de discussie over youtubefilmpjes: waarom die overkill van bewerkte youtube filmpjes, als de cctv livebeelden van de bewakingscameras - zelfs zonder geluid - veelzeggender zijn. Hey Tamurtino, zwaai maar alvast naar de vele cameraatjes, die in de pimped-out hotellen van Dubai hangen...>





« Reply #7 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:08:36 »
Ik zei toch dat bovenstaande terroristische aanslag van de Mossad pijn gaat doen bij de Israelische autoriteiten....>






« Reply #8 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:12:56 »
En deze gaat ook zeker pijn doen....;)....>



Ahmed Bouchiki

Lillehammer affair
The Lillehammer affair refers to the assassination by Mossad agents of a Moroccan waiter, Ahmed Bouchiki, in Lillehammer, Norway on July 21, 1973. The Israeli agents had mistaken their victim for Ali Hassan Salameh, the chief of operations for Black September. Most of the Mossad team was captured and tried for the murder, in a major blow to the intelligence agency's reputation.

History
The under cover agents had been sent by Israel as part of Operation Wrath of God to assassinate Ali Hassan Salameh, the leader of the Black September Organization, a Palestinian group that carried out the 1972 Munich Massacre. They mistook Bouchiki for their target and shot him repeatedly as he walked back from a cinema to his apartment with his pregnant wife. Two members of the assassination team were arrested the next day as they re-used a getaway car to go to the airport. After their interrogation the whole cell was arrested. Incriminating documents and the keys to a network of safe houses were discovered.[1]

Of the nine agents who participated directly in the assassination (Michael Harari, Dan Ærbel, Ethel Marianne Gladnikoff, Abraham Gehmer, alias Leslie Orbaum, Sylvia Rafael, alias Patricia Lesley Roxburgh, Victor Zipstein alias Zwi Steinberg, Michael Dorf, Gustav Pistauer, Jean-Luc Sevenier, Jonathan Isaac Englesberg alias Jonathan Ingleby, "Tamara" alias "Tamar" alias "Marie", Rolf Baehr, Gerard Lafond, Raoul Cousin, Nora Heffner), six were captured by the Norwegian authorities and five were convicted of Bouchiki's murder. Harari as well as the two killers escaped and Dorf was acquitted. The five convicts were sentenced to prison terms ranging from two and a half to five years but all were released within 22 months and deported to Israel.

The revelations of the captured agents dealt a massive blow to the secret infrastructure of the Mossad in Europe. Agents who had been exposed had to be recalled, safe houses abandoned, phone numbers changed and operational methods modified. Michael Harari, the leader of the assassins, managed to escape and was never extradited by Israel to Norway. The Israeli government has not admitted responsibility for the murder.[2] Even though Israel in 1996 paid compensation equal to US$283,000 split between Bouchiki's wife and daughter, and a separate settlement of US$118,000 to a son from a previous marriage, it never expressed any apologies to the family of the victim.[3]

The September 2004 book release of Mange liv (Many lives) by the former lawyer Annæus Schjødt, who represented two of the agents in the case and later married one of them, Sylvia Rafael, claimed that one of the arrested agents, Dan Ærbel, leaked information to the Norwegian government about the Israeli nuclear weapons program. However, the Norwegian government decided to remain silent about their findings. Information relating to Israel's development and possession of nuclear weapons was not made public until Mordechai Vanunu exposed the program in October 1986, some 13 years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
« Last Edit: 15/03/2010 om 04:34:02 by incognito »

Chatt zie arif

« Reply #9 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:14:31 »

Obama fails to move Netanyahu on settlement construction


By Warren P. Strobel, McClatchy Newspapers Warren P. Strobel, Mcclatchy Newspapers – Tue Mar 23, 7:35 pm ET
WASHINGTON _Two weeks after Israel's announcement of construction in East Jerusalem threatened the worst confrontation with the U.S. in 20 years, the two sides have agreed to disagree — in effect handing a political and diplomatic victory to right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu .

Netanyahu, who was showered with expressions of support Tuesday in a visit to Capitol Hill , has successfully refused White House demands — relayed directly by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — that Israel halt construction in the eastern sector of the holy city, also claimed by the Palestinians.

"We understand that . . . there are different perspectives among the parties. We agree with some, we don't agree with others," said Clinton spokesman P.J. Crowley .

His statement suggested that the Obama administration has failed to move Netanyahu off Israel's long-standing position on Jerusalem .

It was just 11 days ago that Clinton had denounced Israel's decision to build 1,600 new apartments in East Jerusalem with rare harshness. She told Netanyahu that it was a "deeply negative signal" about relations with the U.S. and undermined U.S. attempts to re-launch Middle East peace talks.

This week's outcome marks the second time the Obama administration has pressed Netanyahu on Jewish settlements outside the country's pre-1967 borders, only to come away with less than it demanded.

Last year, Obama pressed Israel for a full freeze on settlements, including what Israel calls "natural growth." Netanyahu offered a 10-month moratorium, excluding East Jerusalem . U.S. officials say the promise was more than any other U.S. president has extracted from Israel .

Obama and Netanyahu met early Tuesday evening for nearly 90 minutes behind closed doors at the White House , with no joint public appearance planned.

It was an unusual protocol for a visiting Israeli leader, and it's not clear the two men will be able to work together in the coming months.

Whether Obama's tactics in the current crisis prove fruitful, or another false start after 14 months of trying to get Israelis and Palestinians to negotiate, remains to be seen.

U.S. officials suggested the high-stakes effort will have been worthwhile if they can get the two sides to the table in the coming weeks, and to open substantive talks on a peace treaty and an eventual Palestinian state.

Crowley said the U.S. goal is to get Israelis and Palestinians beyond indirect, so-called "proximity talks," already tentatively agreed on, and into direct face-to-face negotiations.

"Our immediate pass/fail test is, can (we) get the . . . parties into direct negotiations," he said.

The White House has attempted to keep under wraps the details of the demands that Clinton, at Obama's behest, made of Netanyahu in a tense March 12 phone call — apparently so there would be no public scorecard of what the White House won, and what it didn't.

A senior U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the subject's sensitivity, acknowledged that the Obama administration "set a high bar" in its negotiations with Israel . "The Israelis have moved, but not far enough."

The next U.S. step, he said, will be to "make a credible presentation to the Palestinians that this is not everything you wanted, (but) it's a lot."

An Israeli official said Netanyahu has offered some steps on East Jerusalem in response to U.S. pressure. Israel won't halt the construction, but it will avoid provocative actions that could upset peace talks, said the official, who wasn't authorized to speak for the record.

The U.S. and Israel "agree to disagree" on East Jerusalem , the official said.

During his visit to Capitol Hill , where both Republicans and Democrats pledged backing for Israel , Netanyahu attempted to turn the tables on the Palestinians.

If Palestinians stick to demands for a full settlement freeze before peace talks begin, another year could be lost before negotiations get underway, he told Israeli reporters.

Nor does Israel appear to have acquiesced to a reported U.S. demand that, once the "proximity" talks get underway, Israelis and Palestinians would immediately begin negotiating the substantive issues that divide them, as opposed to procedural questions.

Netanyahu's position is that the Palestinians can put any issue on the table they want, but issues such as the borders of a Palestinian state, Jerusalem , and the fate of Palestinian refugees can only be solved via direct talks.

The prime minister, who attended MIT and Harvard and knows the U.S. well, demonstrated the depth of Israel's support in Congress on Tuesday.

"In Congress we speak with one voice on the subject of Israel ," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi , D- Calif. , during a joint appearance with Netanyahu.

Shibley Telhami , a University of Maryland professor and the author of several books on the Middle East , said the two-week old crisis has had the effect of putting Obama and his administration more directly involved in Middle East peacemaking.

"There's a level of engagement that's different than before. What we haven't seen yet is what the results will be," Telhami said.

After successive crises, Obama's credibility is more at stake than ever, he added.

"The stakes have been raised even higher," Telhami said. "I don't know if the administration can go on as usual" if there's another confrontation with Israel .





Dit doet me denken aan het gevecht tussen David en Goliath...
« Last Edit: 27/03/2010 om 12:03:52 by Chatt le Mal Barré »

« Reply #10 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:16:37 »
Doe nou niet,Inco,je maakt je schuldig aan anti-semitisme en je bent tevens slecht geintegreerd.

Vroeg of laat moet die Pandora's doos open... het is een kwestie van tijd....

Chatt zie arif

« Reply #11 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:21:40 »
Vroeg of laat moet die Pandora's doos open... het is een kwestie van tijd....

Gelukkig gaat iedereen na een bepaalde tijd dood,men zou namelijk krankzinnig worden mocht men te lang blijven leven.Dood gaan is een zegen...  (ignorance is inderdaad bliss)
« Last Edit: 15/03/2010 om 23:12:41 by Chatt le Mal Barré »

« Reply #12 on: 14/03/2010 om 23:29:05 »
Gelukkig gaat iedereen na een bepaalde tijd dood,men zou namelijk krankzinnig worden mocht men te lang blijven leven.Dood gaan is een zegen...

Inderdaad. Dood gaan is slechts een overgang naar de Eeuwige Jachtvelden... (kennis is macht)
« Last Edit: 16/03/2010 om 04:31:08 by incognito »

« Reply #13 on: 15/03/2010 om 21:18:34 »
Doe nou niet,Inco,je maakt je schuldig aan anti-semitisme en je bent tevens slecht geintegreerd.


Dit is trouwens ook lachen,tijdens het bezoek van 's werelds second meest machtige man een bouwplan van 1600 huizen op illegaal bezet grondgebied aankondigen.

What yo gonna do 'bout it,ha? What?




Israeli settlement action 'an insult': Obama aide

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Israel's announcement of plans to build 1,600 settler homes in east Jerusalem was not only an "insult" to the United States but "destructive" of the Middle East peace process, a top White House official said Sunday.

"This was an affront, it was an insult but most importantly it undermined this very fragile effort to bring peace to that region," said David Axelrod, one of President Barack Obama's closest advisers.

"We have just started proximity talks, that is shuttle diplomacy, between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and for this announcement to come at that time was very destructive," he said on NBC television's Meet the Press show.

Israel's announcement of plans to build the 1,600 housing units in mostly Arab east Jerusalem came March 10 during a visit by US Vice President Joe Biden that had aimed to encourage the first indirect Israeli-Palestinian talks since Israel's 2008-2009 offensive in Gaza.

Axelrod's comments were further evidence of the Obama administration's growing frustration with conservative Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Biden himself condemned the east Jerusalem building plan in a sharp statement issued in Jerusalem and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Netanyahu directly in a 43-minute phone call that the announcement sent a "deeply negative" signal about Israel's approach to relations with Washington.

Axelrod said both Biden's and Clinton's words reflected Obama's thinking, and he said he believed Netanyahu had received the message.

His comments came after Netanyahu, who has expressed regret over the timing of the announcement, sought to calm down what many in Israel see as the worst crisis in US-Israeli relations in two decades.

"We opened the papers this morning and saw the analyses and reviews," Netanyahu said Sunday ahead of a weekly cabinet meeting. "I suggest we not get carried away, and calm down."

"We know how to deal with situations like these, calmly, responsibly and seriously," he said.

But there was no sign Washington was prepared to let go of the issue.

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Netanyahu's expression of regret was "a good start" but suggested that the Israeli leader had more to do to placate his country's closest ally.

In an interview on Fox News Sunday, he said that in her conversation with Netanyahu, Clinton outlined steps that the United States thinks he should take.

"I think what would be an even better start is coming to the table with constructive ideas for constructive and trustful dialogue about moving the peace process forward," he said.

On ABC's This Week, Axelrod said, "Israel is a strong and special ally. The bonds run deep. But for just that very reason, this was not the right way to behave."

Ookal lijkt de Amerikaanse eatbees een beetje te hard van stapel te lopen... moet ik wel zeggen dat de publieke opinie in het Westen zich beetje bij beetje tegen Israel begint te keren... en daar wil ik best wel een handje bij helpen....>




Finally, America vs. Israel

What Joe Biden told the Israelis:

“This is starting to get dangerous for us. What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That endangers us and it endangers regional peace.”


What Hillary Clinton told CNN:

“The announcement of the settlements the very day that the vice president was there was insulting.”


What Hillary Clinton told the Israelis (paraphrased by State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley):

“The secretary said she could not understand how this happened, particularly in light of the United States’ strong commitment to Israel’s security.”


What a senior U.S. official told the Washington Post:

“We think the burden is on the Israelis to do something that could restore confidence in the process and to restore confidence in the relationship with the United States.”


What Israeli ambassador to the U.S. Michael Oren told his colleagues:

“Israel’s ties with the United States are in their worst crisis since 1975…a crisis of historic proportions.”


What General David Petraeus told his superiors back in January (paraphrased by Mark Perry in Foreign Policy):

“The message couldn’t be plainer: Israel’s intransigence could cost American lives.”


So American interests and Israeli interests are not identical? Finally, a confrontation where it counts!

15 Maart 2010

eatbees

http://www.eatbees.com/blog/2010/03/15/america-vs-israel/
« Last Edit: 16/03/2010 om 04:33:41 by incognito »

« Reply #14 on: 15/03/2010 om 21:30:58 »
Lillehammer Affair

5.4 Accusations of involvement of the "fourth service" and the Norwegian government's Covered

In recent years there have also pending individual claims that in Norway exists a so-called "fourth service" and that this has assisted the Mossad actively in connection with the Lillehammer affair, both in connection with the murder and in the form of so-called cloaking afterwards. The claims have mainly been expressed in the book they were Furre was by Hans Henrik Ramm, and John M. Setsaas, as well as in unpublished material written by the same authors.

Ramm and Setsaas defines "fourth service" as a secret network that, in contrast to Stay Behind, would operate all the time, not just be on alert for an occupation. "The fourth service" call themselves "Alpha" and was founded by Jens Christian Hauge just after World War II. According to the authors are "Alpha" in reality an extension of part of the Home Front and its intelligence XU. The network was established partly at the urging of U.S. intelligence authorities that are not relying on the ordinary Norwegian intelligence service. It is claimed that the "Alfa" has a solid foothold in the U.S. intelligence service CIA, and that the network is closely associated with Labor. Moreover, it is emphasized that the "fourth service" helped to build up the Israeli intelligence service Mossad, who eventually established his own network in Norway. 1 Ramm and Setsaas argues that "Alfa" helped Mossad in connection with the Lillehammer murder in 1973, and points out that «[...] there are not many who no longer really believe that the Lillehammer murder was something totally innocent Norway was subjected to ". 2

Moreover, argues that the Norwegian participation in the Lillehammer affair has been exposed for covering the Norwegian authorities until today. Cloaking is defined as deliberately to give an incomplete picture of reality, for example, through statements that can be interpreted in different directions depending on what is appropriate in each case. Ramm and Setsaas shows the so-called Haarstad-note, arguing that the fact that Hararis identity was known to lead the investigation already in 1973 without the Norwegian authorities were informed, was the result of deliberately concealing. Cover-up of Lillehammer affair was then repeated in 1989 and 1993. 3 They point out that «[...] least two Attorney General and the prosecutors have been involved in covering the Lillehammer affair in all years, by putting a lid on the initial investigation results, systematically keeping the crucial information back, giving ministers in turn order completely wrong information as the basis of information to Parliament and failing to implement interrogation and investigation as it obviously was both POTS and State Attorney General's duty to provide for. "4 Attorney Else Bugge Fougner is claimed to be the minister who misinformed Parliament about Mike Hararis identity, without ever again having taken some corrective initiative. 5

The presentation of the book they were Furre products based on both primary and secondary source material. In addition, the authors operate with so-called "secret sources" that for reasons of source protection can not be made public. Regarding the specific allegations related to the "fourth service" and the Norwegian government covering, provided, however, no source reference. The very existence of the "Alpha" is not documented. The authors argue however that the documentation about these matters will be provided in a later book. 6
1

Ramm and Setsaas 1999, they were Furre was, p. 33-35, 332-333.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uvH34AnNUQ
« Last Edit: 15/03/2010 om 21:45:36 by incognito »