Citaat van: AdamX op 11/04/2005 om 00:30:44Arabisch is belachelijk, maar voor de mensen die richting het Arabische schiereiland bidden, is het beter dan Engels.
arabisch spreken en moslim zijn heeft inderdaad niks met elkaar te maken, je heb took christelijke arabieren.
het is wel zo dat de meeste belangrijke boeken over de islam in het arabisch zijn gechreven. het is wel mooi mee genomen als een amazigh/turk/koerd of wat dan ook het arabisch ook beheerst naast zijn moeder taal. arabisch is net zo belangrijk als het engels.
- Welkom bij Amazigh.nl.
Deze sectie stelt je in staat om alle bijdragen van dit lid te bekijken. Je kunt alleen de bijdragen zien waar je op dit moment toegang toe hebt.
#241
Geschiedenis / Re: Het Arabische Marokko
11/04/2005 om 00:33:42 #242
Cultuur / Re: Imazighen en christendom
11/04/2005 om 00:26:39
De islamisering van de Berbers:
http://www.amazigh.nl/aforum/index.php?topic=5590.0
http://www.amazigh.nl/aforum/index.php?topic=5590.0
#243
Geschiedenis / Re: Imazighen & joden
10/04/2005 om 22:58:13
Berbers and jews:
http://www.dayan.org/articles/JewsandBerbers.pdf
Maar zoals Idir gezegd heeft, is het overdreven te zeggen dat de Berbers in het algemen joden waren.
http://www.dayan.org/articles/JewsandBerbers.pdf
Maar zoals Idir gezegd heeft, is het overdreven te zeggen dat de Berbers in het algemen joden waren.
#244
Cultuur / Re: Imazighen en christendom
10/04/2005 om 22:52:15Citaat van: IIAwaryagherII op 10/04/2005 om 14:51:13Nee, op de 13de.Citaat van: L_L op 10/04/2005 om 14:50:21de amazigh 1 april is op de 10de ::)
uhmm. 1 april is voorbij..
#245
Geschiedenis / Re: Het Arabische Marokko
10/04/2005 om 22:50:12Citaat van: ameziane op 10/04/2005 om 18:52:57De joodse Berbers gingen naar Israel en vergaten helemaal hun berbers, volgens wat ik gelezen heb.
Mensen halen identiteit en godsdienst door elkaar.
#246
Taal / Re: The name " Taknara " and its detractor
10/04/2005 om 18:19:57 #247
Cultuur / Re: De identiteit van de Guanches
10/04/2005 om 18:15:07
"According to the tales of the European conquerors, the Guanches were a "highly beautiful white race, tall, muscular, and with a great many blondes amongst their numbers" Their great height must be understood in relation to the average height of Europeans at that time. As for the presence of blondes, even today after many centuries of invasions and intermarriage, a heritage of blond hair and blue eyes is easily found among modern day Berbers of the Atlas region in Africa."
http://www.rareplants.de/islas_canarias/guanches_canary_islands/los_guanches.htm
http://www.rareplants.de/islas_canarias/guanches_canary_islands/los_guanches.htm
#248
Taal / Re: Voor wie Arabisch verstaat en TMZ-graammatica wil leren..
10/04/2005 om 18:08:33
Die site is zo'n Amazigh-bibliotheek.
#249
Taal / The name " Taknara " and its detractor
10/04/2005 om 18:01:50
To the attention of D. Francisco Cansino, Subdirector of La Opinión de Tenerife
In an article published January 18 [2002] in the newspaper La Opinión de Tenerife, under the title: "Taknara, an invented name," the president of the dying National Congress of the Canary Islands, Antonio Cubillo, maintains that "the study of the Guanche language, and Tamazight in general, must be taken very seriously," but from what he writes and says in respect to the matter, it is clear that it does not follow what he has preached. Furthermore, he contradicts himself. The following clarifies the inconsistency of his argument against the name Taknara.
Before all, we must stress that Taknara is not an "invention," but a name such as Tamazgha, coined to designate what the Europeans have called "Barbary." Taknara is nothing more than the Tamazighation of the Spanish name of our country, the Canary Islands, for which the root consonants are, clearly, K-N-R since the "s" is a plural ending in Spanish. As for the "t" of Taknara, it is the consonant (when at the beginning of a word, such as in the present case), which indicates in Amazigh (or "Berber"), the feminine form. Therefore, Taknara is--and one must insist--the Guanche-Amazigh form of the Spanish name of the Canary Islands, but unlike the latter, not in the plural form. Our country, made up of seven islands and several islets (La Isleta, in the Canary Islands, is, in reality, a peninsulette like that of Jandia), is ONE, and, therefore, the name Taknara, a singular feminine noun, is more appropriate to designate our nationality than the plural Canary Islands.
With respect to the form "Kanaria," advocated by Cubillo to designate our country, it is unsuitable for two strong reasons: first, because whenever any Spanish-speaker hears that name, he/she will associate it with one of our islands, not to the islands as a whole; secondly, because morphologically, it is foreign to Guanche-Amazigh, a name whose very form is foreign to itself. It does not cease to amaze that an independist, as Cubillo presents himself, defends the (neo)Latin form Canaria (though he spells it with a K) and denounces the Guanche-Amazigh anme of Taknara.
Cubillo also indicates in his tendentious article that, in the south of Morocco, the prickly pear is called taknarit, "which means that it is originally from or comes from the Canary Islands." In effect, taknarit, in said zone, means "the Canarian (fruit and plant)." But Cubillo contradicts himself and falls short of the truth when he affirms that he understands Taknara as a Moroccan from the Sous region: "Land planted with prickly pears." The reality is that the Spanish form Canaria (or Kanaria) as much as the Guanche-Amazigh Taknara suggest exactly the same to any Tamazight-speaker: the land or country of the Canarians.
On the other hand, Cubillo ignores homonymy. Let us see how the term "homonymous" is defined in the twenty-second edition of the Dictionary of the Spanish Academy of the Language: "In a word: That being the same as another in its form, has a different meaning." In Tamazight, likewise, there exists homonymy. Aknar, "canary" is a homonym of aknar, "doll" (figure of a man made of paste, wood or something else)," a word gathered by Charles de Foucauld a century ago in the Tuareg region of Ahaggar, and which is synonymous, as pointed out by Cubillo himself, to asunar. We point out another case of homonymy in Tamazight: amawal, "dictionary", and amawal, "watchman." A case of homonymy in Spanish analogous to that of taknarit, the Canarian (fruit), " and taknar(i)t, "canary," is paraguayo (Paraguayan) and paraguayo (fruit with a pit similar to the peach, with similar flavor but a squashed form).
At the present time, all Tamazighophones designate us, the Canarians, with the ethnicity Aknar, for which the plural is Iknaren (the ending -i of Aknari, which is of Arabic origin, is unnecessary), consequently, being Tiknarin (or Tknariyin), the plural of Taknar(i)t. And in saying "all the Tamazighophones," it includes the Tuareg of Ahaggar and southern Moroccans. Cubillo, who does not ignore this, does not, significantly, mention it to the Canarians. This is a Latinized form of the name that the Amazigh who populated a certain region of today's Morocco two thousand years ago called themselves. And we are sure that our opponent does not himself believe the notion that those distant forebearers of ours attributed to themselves the name of "doll" or "machangos" [person of little courage, without importance], a term that Cubillo also employs maliciously and tendentiously in his article.
Finally, our opponent assures us that "in Tamazight, there is no C, but rather the K," which is not precise. Presently, when the Tamazighophones use the Latin alphabet, they also employ the C, although they gave it the same phonetic value represented, respectively, by the digraphs "ch" in French and "sh" in English. As Cubillo assures he has in his home "all the dictionaries on the different Tamazight dialects and oral forms," he should consult, for example, the large Kabyle-French dictionary of J. M. Dallet so that he can convince himself that the C does exist in Tamazight.
With his article, that unskilled and finished politician, Cubillo, has provoked the indignation of the Canarias in support of the Cause that he pretends to make others believe he defends. Would, in trying to discredit the Guance-Amazigh name of our country, be the way to defend Taknara? Cubillo preaches that one should not "invent" words without first "deeply investigating," but does not give an example of such: it was he specifically who invented and launched the word "aitiden," authentic nonsense to which he attributed the meaning of "community" and which he composed with the sound "ayt" (plural of u-, particle, which in Tamazight--just like the O' in Irish--indicates relationship) and the desinential of the masculine plural "-en." If prior to his "happy" lexical initiative he had consulted Volume IV of the Tuareg-French dictionary of Ch. de Foucauld, he would have found, on page 1,773, the term "ághref," for which one of the meanings is indeed that of "community." Thus, in this manner, not composing said lexical nonsense, he would not have incriminated himself as he has now with his article.
*The Canarian name of Manuel Suárez Rosales.
Bron: http://www.waac.info/amazigh/canary_islands/name_taknara_and_its_detractor.html ( zie ook de andere interpretatie)
In an article published January 18 [2002] in the newspaper La Opinión de Tenerife, under the title: "Taknara, an invented name," the president of the dying National Congress of the Canary Islands, Antonio Cubillo, maintains that "the study of the Guanche language, and Tamazight in general, must be taken very seriously," but from what he writes and says in respect to the matter, it is clear that it does not follow what he has preached. Furthermore, he contradicts himself. The following clarifies the inconsistency of his argument against the name Taknara.
Before all, we must stress that Taknara is not an "invention," but a name such as Tamazgha, coined to designate what the Europeans have called "Barbary." Taknara is nothing more than the Tamazighation of the Spanish name of our country, the Canary Islands, for which the root consonants are, clearly, K-N-R since the "s" is a plural ending in Spanish. As for the "t" of Taknara, it is the consonant (when at the beginning of a word, such as in the present case), which indicates in Amazigh (or "Berber"), the feminine form. Therefore, Taknara is--and one must insist--the Guanche-Amazigh form of the Spanish name of the Canary Islands, but unlike the latter, not in the plural form. Our country, made up of seven islands and several islets (La Isleta, in the Canary Islands, is, in reality, a peninsulette like that of Jandia), is ONE, and, therefore, the name Taknara, a singular feminine noun, is more appropriate to designate our nationality than the plural Canary Islands.
With respect to the form "Kanaria," advocated by Cubillo to designate our country, it is unsuitable for two strong reasons: first, because whenever any Spanish-speaker hears that name, he/she will associate it with one of our islands, not to the islands as a whole; secondly, because morphologically, it is foreign to Guanche-Amazigh, a name whose very form is foreign to itself. It does not cease to amaze that an independist, as Cubillo presents himself, defends the (neo)Latin form Canaria (though he spells it with a K) and denounces the Guanche-Amazigh anme of Taknara.
Cubillo also indicates in his tendentious article that, in the south of Morocco, the prickly pear is called taknarit, "which means that it is originally from or comes from the Canary Islands." In effect, taknarit, in said zone, means "the Canarian (fruit and plant)." But Cubillo contradicts himself and falls short of the truth when he affirms that he understands Taknara as a Moroccan from the Sous region: "Land planted with prickly pears." The reality is that the Spanish form Canaria (or Kanaria) as much as the Guanche-Amazigh Taknara suggest exactly the same to any Tamazight-speaker: the land or country of the Canarians.
On the other hand, Cubillo ignores homonymy. Let us see how the term "homonymous" is defined in the twenty-second edition of the Dictionary of the Spanish Academy of the Language: "In a word: That being the same as another in its form, has a different meaning." In Tamazight, likewise, there exists homonymy. Aknar, "canary" is a homonym of aknar, "doll" (figure of a man made of paste, wood or something else)," a word gathered by Charles de Foucauld a century ago in the Tuareg region of Ahaggar, and which is synonymous, as pointed out by Cubillo himself, to asunar. We point out another case of homonymy in Tamazight: amawal, "dictionary", and amawal, "watchman." A case of homonymy in Spanish analogous to that of taknarit, the Canarian (fruit), " and taknar(i)t, "canary," is paraguayo (Paraguayan) and paraguayo (fruit with a pit similar to the peach, with similar flavor but a squashed form).
At the present time, all Tamazighophones designate us, the Canarians, with the ethnicity Aknar, for which the plural is Iknaren (the ending -i of Aknari, which is of Arabic origin, is unnecessary), consequently, being Tiknarin (or Tknariyin), the plural of Taknar(i)t. And in saying "all the Tamazighophones," it includes the Tuareg of Ahaggar and southern Moroccans. Cubillo, who does not ignore this, does not, significantly, mention it to the Canarians. This is a Latinized form of the name that the Amazigh who populated a certain region of today's Morocco two thousand years ago called themselves. And we are sure that our opponent does not himself believe the notion that those distant forebearers of ours attributed to themselves the name of "doll" or "machangos" [person of little courage, without importance], a term that Cubillo also employs maliciously and tendentiously in his article.
Finally, our opponent assures us that "in Tamazight, there is no C, but rather the K," which is not precise. Presently, when the Tamazighophones use the Latin alphabet, they also employ the C, although they gave it the same phonetic value represented, respectively, by the digraphs "ch" in French and "sh" in English. As Cubillo assures he has in his home "all the dictionaries on the different Tamazight dialects and oral forms," he should consult, for example, the large Kabyle-French dictionary of J. M. Dallet so that he can convince himself that the C does exist in Tamazight.
With his article, that unskilled and finished politician, Cubillo, has provoked the indignation of the Canarias in support of the Cause that he pretends to make others believe he defends. Would, in trying to discredit the Guance-Amazigh name of our country, be the way to defend Taknara? Cubillo preaches that one should not "invent" words without first "deeply investigating," but does not give an example of such: it was he specifically who invented and launched the word "aitiden," authentic nonsense to which he attributed the meaning of "community" and which he composed with the sound "ayt" (plural of u-, particle, which in Tamazight--just like the O' in Irish--indicates relationship) and the desinential of the masculine plural "-en." If prior to his "happy" lexical initiative he had consulted Volume IV of the Tuareg-French dictionary of Ch. de Foucauld, he would have found, on page 1,773, the term "ághref," for which one of the meanings is indeed that of "community." Thus, in this manner, not composing said lexical nonsense, he would not have incriminated himself as he has now with his article.
*The Canarian name of Manuel Suárez Rosales.
Bron: http://www.waac.info/amazigh/canary_islands/name_taknara_and_its_detractor.html ( zie ook de andere interpretatie)
#250
Cultuur / De identiteit van de Guanches
10/04/2005 om 17:48:28
azul,
Het is me opgevallen dat de Guanches verward zijn, sommigen van hen beschouwen zich als Berbers, terwijl andere Guanches gaan ervanuit dat ze geen Berbers zijn. Deze laatsten zeggen dat er een contact met de berbers en de Guaches was, maar de Guanches zijn een ander volk dan de Berbers.
Sommige Guanches die zich als Berbers beschouwen stellen dat het de colonisten zijn die beweren dat ze Berbers zijn om aanspraaklijkheid van Marokko op de Kanarische Eilanden te ontkennen.
Wat denken jullie ? Maken ze deel van de berberse identiteit of niet ?
Het is me opgevallen dat de Guanches verward zijn, sommigen van hen beschouwen zich als Berbers, terwijl andere Guanches gaan ervanuit dat ze geen Berbers zijn. Deze laatsten zeggen dat er een contact met de berbers en de Guaches was, maar de Guanches zijn een ander volk dan de Berbers.
Sommige Guanches die zich als Berbers beschouwen stellen dat het de colonisten zijn die beweren dat ze Berbers zijn om aanspraaklijkheid van Marokko op de Kanarische Eilanden te ontkennen.
Wat denken jullie ? Maken ze deel van de berberse identiteit of niet ?
#251
Politiek / Re: De zwakpunten van de Berberse beweging in Nederland
10/04/2005 om 17:13:35
Die Ahmed Aboutaleb doet niets voor de Amazighiteit, maar hij wil wel de Riffijnen helpen denk ik.
De amazighiteit zou ook geen stemmen brengen. iedereen heeft islamitische eisen. dus hij zou zich bezighouden met de zaken waarin de Marokkaanse Nederlanders geïnteresseerd zijn om hun stemmen te winnen. Indien de Marokkanen ook de voorkeurd gaven aan de Amazigh-kwestie had hij zich daar ook bezig mee gehouden.
De amazighiteit zou ook geen stemmen brengen. iedereen heeft islamitische eisen. dus hij zou zich bezighouden met de zaken waarin de Marokkaanse Nederlanders geïnteresseerd zijn om hun stemmen te winnen. Indien de Marokkanen ook de voorkeurd gaven aan de Amazigh-kwestie had hij zich daar ook bezig mee gehouden.
#252
Politiek / Re: De zwakpunten van de Berberse beweging in Nederland
10/04/2005 om 17:08:07
Bekijk dit filmpje in el-Hoceima:
Zoon, zee en Ahmed Aboutaleb.
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?cfid=27180629&cftoken=35869822&ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=2792
Zoon, zee en Ahmed Aboutaleb.
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?cfid=27180629&cftoken=35869822&ln=nl&fuseaction=videoaudio.details&reportage_id=2792
#253
Politiek / Re: De zwakpunten van de Berberse beweging in Nederland
10/04/2005 om 16:53:55Citaat van: L_L op 10/04/2005 om 16:51:03Hij is Riffijn.
als oom van rasoul sws zou hij toch van de qoeraisch moeten afstammen??
#254
Vrouwen / Re: Ezels, zwarte honden en vrouwen
10/04/2005 om 16:49:38Citaat van: L_L op 10/04/2005 om 16:43:04Hoeft niet, dat telt ook niet mee. de interpreaties worden aangepast aan de niewe wetenschappelijke ontdekkingen en de maatschappelijke en politieke veranderingen.
daarom zeg ik dat het niet makkelijk is om even te interpreteren ales...je moet echt voorzichtig zijn
#255
Politiek / Re: De zwakpunten van de Berberse beweging in Nederland
10/04/2005 om 16:47:44
Tot welk soort hoort Aboutaleb. Ik zag iemand hem " een vieze jood " noemen op een filmpje op internet.
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?biografie_id=285&fuseaction=biografieen.details
http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?biografie_id=285&fuseaction=biografieen.details