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Topics - Matoub

Since the dawn of history, the Imazighen people have been the indigenous inhabitants of North Africa. (Berber is a name that has been given them by others and which they themselves do not use). Their territory reaches from Egypt to Mauritania and from the Mediterranean to the boundaries of historic sub-Saharan Africa (not North Africa). Various empires and peoples have conquered portions of historic Tamazgha (their land), beginning with the Phoenicians and Greeks and continuing through the Romans, Vandals, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks, French, British, Spanish, and Italians....

Geschiedenis / De Arabisering van de Berbers
19/04/2005 om 15:02:30

ik heb een paar vragen:
Wie heeft de berbers gearabiseerd ? hebben ze zich gearabiseerd, of zijn ze door overmacht gearabiseerd ?

Waarom zijn ze gearabiseerd ?

Waarom blijft een Berber trots ( als ik me niet vergis) op zijn amazighiteit, maar zodra hij gearabiseerd wordt, wordt hij een Arabist. Waarom beschouwen ze zich niet als gearabiseerde Berbers zoals het geval van de Egyptenaren die zich als gearabiseerde  Egyptenaren beschouwen, of de Libanezen die zich als gearabiseerde Feneciers beschouwen, of the Guanches die zich als verspaansde Berbers beschouwen ?
Cultuur / Azrou 'n Taslit
17/04/2005 om 22:20:17
Azrou 'n taslit ( tesrith) is een rots in Igzennayen, dat betekent letterlijk: " de rots van de bruid". Ik heb hem niet gezien, maar men vertelt daarover dat die rots naar een legendarische bruid is genoemd. Volgens het verhaal werd ze gedwongen om te trouwen met een man van wie ze niet houdt. Ze werd gevoerd tegen haar wil naar de bruidegom, maar onderwerg is ze veranderd in een vogel, en kon ze zich bevrijden en vliegen ver van de groep die met haar was, toen ze ver aan het vliegen was, kwam ze een rots tegen, maar toch stopte ze niet, en ging door en dus boorde hem; en bleef die rots herkend door die teken.

Wie kent zo'n verhaal met dezelfde naam ?
Muziek / Muziek van de tuareg
17/04/2005 om 20:21:28

Iemand heeft me gevraagd (in een ander forum) of ik tuaregsmuziek op internet in mp3 ken.

Ik heb daar geen verstand van. Kan iemand hier vriendelijk een antwoord op geven ?

De Guanches zijn Imazighen, en ze zullen ook de ex-amazigh goden aagebeden hebben. Weet iemand of ze de god Amon ook aangebeden hebben ?
Geschiedenis / Igzennayen
17/04/2005 om 13:24:02

Ik vraag me af of de naam "Igzennayen" de verbastering van de naam "Sendhaja" is. heeft iemand hier info over ?
Geschiedenis / Atlantes
15/04/2005 om 19:59:52
" Near to this salt is a mountain called Atlas, whose shape is slender and conical; and it is said to be so high that its heights cannot be seen, for clouds are always on them winter and summer. The people of the country call it the pillar of heaven. [4] These men get their name, which is Atlantes, from this mountain. It is said that they eat no living creature, and see no dreams in their sleep. "

Lees ook: http://plato-dialogues.org/tools/char/atlas.htm


Ik vind dat het woord Amazigh of berber niet bestaat in het Marokkaans Arabisch.

Wat vinden jullie hiervan ?
First, this paper describes the Amazigh people of North Africa and threats to their language and culture from schooling and the domination of Arabo-Islamic ideology. Second, it discusses how modern technology is amplifying cultural safeguards, such as folklore, music, and some print media. Then the idea is developed that inherent in these new communication technologies is something more than an amplifier of the traditional, something that may be a new and extremely powerful force for preserving and shaping the identity of cultural minorities. The new technologies are impacting the knowledge and attitudes of individuals, both affirming cultural identity and developing a cosmopolitan perspective in a way that will spread through society.
Lees meer:
Taal / Berberse namen voor hoofdstreken
13/04/2005 om 12:19:37
Kanarische Eilanden: waarschijnlijk genoemd naar een berberse stam:"Canarii" of "Iknaren".

Marokko: genoemd naar de marokkaanse stad Marrakesh ( gesticht door een Berberse dynastie ) het betekent "land der god" in berbers ( Murt 'n akuç);, die naam in waarschijnlijk voor eest gebruikt in een italiaanse ducument als " Marrukus ".

Gibraltar: geen berbers woord, maar genoemd naar een Berberse krijgsheer ( Tarik ibn Ziyad). Het is een Arabisch woord en dat betekent " de berg van Tarik".

Citaat van: Tikinas op 13/04/2005 om 21:24:15
Algerije is vernoemd naar de hoofdstad Dzair. En deze is vernoemd naar de stichter Bullugin id / Ait Ziri. De ziriden was een amazigh dynastie die regeerde in "Ifrikiya" van 973-1160.
Tunisië: Waarschijnlijk genoemd naar een berberse godin "Tanit".

Libye: genoemd naar een berberse stam Lebou.

Mauritanië: genoemd naar een berberse stam "de Moren ". Mauritanië was in het gebin een naam van een berbers land dat waarschijnlijk door sifax is gesticht.

Senegal: waarschijnlijk genoemd naar een berberse stam " sinhadja ". Er is een rivier die Snhadja'srivier genaamd was, en met verbastering is het Senegalsrivier geworden ( Sandhadja hebben grote invloed op Senegal uitgeoefend, in de tijd van de almoravidendynastie die door hen ( Sanhadja ) is gesticht)

Ghana: is waarschijnlijk een berbers woord dat het land van de vreemdelingen of van de slaven zou betekenen. Ik heb ooit gelezen dat de berbers daarover reegeerden, en noemden dat land " Tagnawt ". De naam "Ghnawa" die in Marokko voorkomt is daar verwant aan.

Afrika: waarschijnlijk genoemd naar een Berberse godin " Ifri ". Deze naam is door de Romeinen verbasterd tot " Afrika ".

Citaat van: Matoub op 13/04/2005 om 12:25:58
De Atlantische Oceaan: genaamd naar Berberse ( ook Grieks ) god die Atlas genoemd werd.

Atlantis: Dit mythologische eiland is volgens de legende ook genoemd naar de god Atlas.

Athena: deze Griekse hoofdstad is genaamd naar een Griekse godin die Berbers van oorsprong is.
Algemeen / De Riffijnen in Amsterdam
12/04/2005 om 15:57:58

Als ik me goed herinner heb ik ergens gelezen dat 8% van de Amsterdammers Riffijnen zijn. Klopt dat ?

Ik heb ook gelezen dat een kwart van de Riffijnen in Amsterdam wonen. Klopt dit ook ?
Inquiries by Herodotus
Book 4
translated by Shlomo Felberbaum

12/04/2005 om 14:45:53
Het gaat hier om de Marokkanen in Nederland.

Cultuur / De Berbers en ibn Khaldoen
11/04/2005 om 11:45:06
Ibn Khaldun wrote in his "History of the Berbers":

Let's mention a number of man's virtues which became a second nature for the Berbers: their zeal to acquire praiseworthy qualities, the nobility of their soul which brought them to the first ranks among nations, the actions by which they deserved the praise of the universe, their bravery and promptness to defend their hosts and clients, keeping their promises, engagements, and treaties, patience in adversity, firmness in great afflictions, meekness of character, empathy in others' weaknesses, forgiveness, generosity towards the unhappy and poor, respect to the elders and devout, industry, hospitality, charity, magnanimity, hatred for oppression displayed against the empires which threatened them...,devotion to God and his religion: here is, for the Berbers, a number of virtues they inherited from their ancestors and whose presentation, put in writing, could have served as an example to future nations.

Politiek / Anti-dhimmitude among the Berbers
11/04/2005 om 11:15:02
With Islamization comes Arabization. Since Arabic is the language of Allah and of his Qur'an, and the last and greatest Prophet was an Arab, Arab culture tends to spread with the spread of Islam. Islam then teaches that the pre-Islamic culture of any Islamic people is worthless: jahiliya, the pre-Islamic period of ignorance. This has led Muslims in Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and elsewhere to denigrate and ignore what the rest of the world regards as immense cultural treasures. But among the North African Berbers today, there is a counter-movement. This from Reuters, with thanks to Fanabba:

"We're not Arabs, bring out the real history," chanted hundreds of Moroccan Berbers during Labor Day marches this year.
In the capital Rabat, passers-by showed mixed reactions to the unusual sight of Berbers shouting slogans in their Tamazight language and carrying banners written in Tifinagh, the Berber script.

Some expressed sympathy while others wondered why the Berbers were denying what has been their country's official identity for more than 14 centuries.

"Why did police allow them to march? And here in Rabat?" one asked.

Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa, before the Arabs who invaded the fertile area in the seventh century in what is known as the Islamic Conquests.

The Moroccan constitution says the country is Arab and Islam is its religion. The proportion of Berbers in the population of 30 million is not officially known but independent sources say they represent the majority.

The number of Berbers in the world is estimated at 25 million. Apart from Morocco, most of them live in Algeria, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Tunisia, and in the Canary Islands.

Berber activists say all Moroccans are Berbers but that Berber influence in political and economic life remains limited.

"History books say only 200,000 Arabs invaded the whole of North Africa, so the impact on the local population was like a drop in the ocean," said Lahcen Oulhaj, a Berber activist and university economics lecturer.

History textbooks hail the Arab roots of dynasties, which have ruled Morocco for the past 1,400 years.

The contribution of Berbers to the country and its cultural heritage is either not mentioned or limited to traditional dances and folk festivals, activists say.

They doubt the accuracy of the official line in the absence of Berber history books, which they say have been destroyed.

"They say Arabs found little resistance from the peaceful indigenous people to impose the new religion (Islam). This is nonsense," said one Berber activist.

When the Romans arrived in North Africa, they met tough resistance and named the inhabitants of the region Barbarians, hence the word Berber.

However, Berbers prefer to be identified as Imazighen, or the Free Men in Tamazight.

Berber activists argue that the Arabic education system, the lack of programs in Tamazight on state radio and television and the absence of an entity in charge of preserving the Berber cultural heritage is threatening what is left of it.

But in a speech marking the second anniversary of his enthronement on July 30, King Muhammad promised the creation of a Royal Institute for Berber Culture.

Describing the Berber culture as a "national treasure," he said the institute would preserve the Berber cultural heritage and coordinate with education bodies for the teaching of Tamazight.

Berber activists welcomed the announcement, saying they hoped the promise would be fulfilled.

"In 1978, parliament approved the creation of the national institute for Berber culture and studies which was never set up," said Berber activist Mounir Kejji.

He noted that the king did not mention in his speech the issue of "recognizing Tamazight as the official language."

"Why must a Berber woman, appearing in court in a Berber area in front of a Berber judge, speak Arabic?" asked human rights and Berber activist Ilyass Omari.

"If a European appears in court, they'll get a translator."

"Nobody in Morocco speaks Arabic... There is Darija (the Moroccan dialect) which is a mixture of Arabic, Berber, French and Spanish, and there is Berber," he added.

Omari said the recognition of Tamazight was a priority.

"It is a sacred right. We want to recover our rights and feel proud to be what we are. This is our goal. If authorities refuse, well, to every action there's a reaction," he said.

The Labor Day marches coincided with the start of a popular revolt in neighboring Algeria, in the Berber area of Kabylie.

Algerian Kabyles, who say they have long been ignored by the central government, are pressing for the recognition of Tamazight but more broadly demand economic and social reforms.

Moroccan Berbers refuse any analogy with Algeria.

"What's happening in Algeria is one thing and what's happening here is another, but we sympathize a lot with our brothers there," Kejji said.

"Morocco is home to the largest Berber community in the world. Unlike Algeria, Berbers here are the majority not the minority," Oulhaj said.

Ali Lamrabet, the outspoken editor of the Moroccan weekly Demain, told the French newspaper Le Figaro recently that "whatever the differences between the two countries, we are sitting on the same powder keg, except that ours has not exploded yet."

Berber activists disagree

"Those who say things like that are against Berbers' rights. They demonize our movement and brandish the threat of unrest in Algeria to deter authorities from recognizing the Berber culture," said historian Ali Sidqi Azaykou.

In Algeria, he argued, "Berbers are not the instigators of the unrest, the whole nation is fed up with the regime."

The Moroccan authorities in June stopped Berber activists from holding a meeting to decide on the creation of a united group to press for the rights of the Berber ethnic group.

The meeting was to mark the first anniversary of the signing by Berber groups of the Amazigh Manifesto. The 2000 meeting announcing the signature of the manifesto was not banned.

A Western diplomat said the authorities "probably felt the context of the meeting was not right," a reference to Algeria.

For Azaykou, however, any ill-conceived move by the authorities "might push the Berbers down unknown paths."

"Still, this is not a separatist movement, we just want the Berber feature of our identity to be recognized," he said.

Taal / The name " Taknara " and its detractor
10/04/2005 om 18:01:50
To the attention of D. Francisco Cansino, Subdirector of La Opinión de Tenerife

In an article published January 18 [2002] in the newspaper La Opinión de Tenerife, under the title: "Taknara, an invented name," the president of the dying National Congress of the Canary Islands, Antonio Cubillo, maintains that "the study of the Guanche language, and Tamazight in general, must be taken very seriously," but from what he writes and says in respect to the matter, it is clear that it does not follow what he has preached. Furthermore, he contradicts himself. The following clarifies the inconsistency of his argument against the name Taknara.

Before all, we must stress that Taknara is not an "invention," but a name such as Tamazgha, coined to designate what the Europeans have called "Barbary." Taknara is nothing more than the Tamazighation of the Spanish name of our country, the Canary Islands, for which the root consonants are, clearly, K-N-R since the "s" is a plural ending in Spanish. As for the "t" of Taknara, it is the consonant (when at the beginning of a word, such as in the present case), which indicates in Amazigh (or "Berber"), the feminine form. Therefore, Taknara is--and one must insist--the Guanche-Amazigh form of the Spanish name of the Canary Islands, but unlike the latter, not in the plural form. Our country, made up of seven islands and several islets (La Isleta, in the Canary Islands, is, in reality, a peninsulette like that of Jandia), is ONE, and, therefore, the name Taknara, a singular feminine noun, is more appropriate to designate our nationality than the plural Canary Islands.

With respect to the form "Kanaria," advocated by Cubillo to designate our country, it is unsuitable for two strong reasons: first, because whenever any Spanish-speaker hears that name, he/she will associate it with one of our islands, not to the islands as a whole; secondly, because morphologically, it is foreign to Guanche-Amazigh, a name whose very form is foreign to itself. It does not cease to amaze that an independist, as Cubillo presents himself, defends the (neo)Latin form Canaria (though he spells it with a K) and denounces the Guanche-Amazigh anme of Taknara.

Cubillo also indicates in his tendentious article that, in the south of Morocco, the prickly pear is called taknarit, "which means that it is originally from or comes from the Canary Islands." In effect, taknarit, in said zone, means "the Canarian (fruit and plant)." But Cubillo contradicts himself and falls short of the truth when he affirms that he understands Taknara as a Moroccan from the Sous region: "Land planted with prickly pears." The reality is that the Spanish form Canaria (or Kanaria) as much as the Guanche-Amazigh Taknara suggest exactly the same to any Tamazight-speaker: the land or country of the Canarians.

On the other hand, Cubillo ignores homonymy. Let us see how the term "homonymous" is defined in the twenty-second edition of the Dictionary of the Spanish Academy of the Language: "In a word: That being the same as another in its form, has a different meaning." In Tamazight, likewise, there exists homonymy. Aknar, "canary" is a homonym of aknar, "doll" (figure of a man made of paste, wood or something else)," a word gathered by Charles de Foucauld a century ago in the Tuareg region of Ahaggar, and which is synonymous, as pointed out by Cubillo himself, to asunar. We point out another case of homonymy in Tamazight: amawal, "dictionary", and amawal, "watchman." A case of homonymy in Spanish analogous to that of taknarit, the Canarian (fruit), " and taknar(i)t, "canary," is paraguayo (Paraguayan) and paraguayo (fruit with a pit similar to the peach, with similar flavor but a squashed form).

At the present time, all Tamazighophones designate us, the Canarians, with the ethnicity Aknar, for which the plural is Iknaren (the ending -i of Aknari, which is of Arabic origin, is unnecessary), consequently, being Tiknarin (or Tknariyin), the plural of Taknar(i)t. And in saying "all the Tamazighophones," it includes the Tuareg of Ahaggar and southern Moroccans. Cubillo, who does not ignore this, does not, significantly, mention it to the Canarians. This is a Latinized form of the name that the Amazigh who populated a certain region of today's Morocco two thousand years ago called themselves. And we are sure that our opponent does not himself believe the notion that those distant forebearers of ours attributed to themselves the name of "doll" or "machangos" [person of little courage, without importance], a term that Cubillo also employs maliciously and tendentiously in his article.

Finally, our opponent assures us that "in Tamazight, there is no C, but rather the K," which is not precise. Presently, when the Tamazighophones use the Latin alphabet, they also employ the C, although they gave it the same phonetic value represented, respectively, by the digraphs "ch" in French and "sh" in English. As Cubillo assures he has in his home "all the dictionaries on the different Tamazight dialects and oral forms," he should consult, for example, the large Kabyle-French dictionary of J. M. Dallet so that he can convince himself that the C does exist in Tamazight.

With his article, that unskilled and finished politician, Cubillo, has provoked the indignation of the Canarias in support of the Cause that he pretends to make others believe he defends. Would, in trying to discredit the Guance-Amazigh name of our country, be the way to defend Taknara? Cubillo preaches that one should not "invent" words without first "deeply investigating," but does not give an example of such: it was he specifically who invented and launched the word "aitiden," authentic nonsense to which he attributed the meaning of "community" and which he composed with the sound "ayt" (plural of u-, particle, which in Tamazight--just like the O' in Irish--indicates relationship) and the desinential of the masculine plural "-en." If prior to his "happy" lexical initiative he had consulted Volume IV of the Tuareg-French dictionary of Ch. de Foucauld, he would have found, on page 1,773, the term "ághref," for which one of the meanings is indeed that of "community." Thus, in this manner, not composing said lexical nonsense, he would not have incriminated himself as he has now with his article.

*The Canarian name of Manuel Suárez Rosales.

Bron: http://www.waac.info/amazigh/canary_islands/name_taknara_and_its_detractor.html ( zie ook de andere interpretatie)
Cultuur / De identiteit van de Guanches
10/04/2005 om 17:48:28

Het is me opgevallen dat de Guanches verward zijn, sommigen van hen beschouwen zich als Berbers, terwijl andere Guanches gaan ervanuit dat ze geen Berbers zijn. Deze laatsten zeggen dat er een contact met de berbers en de Guaches was, maar de Guanches zijn een ander volk dan de Berbers.

Sommige Guanches die zich als Berbers beschouwen stellen dat het de colonisten zijn die beweren dat ze Berbers zijn om aanspraaklijkheid van Marokko op de Kanarische Eilanden te ontkennen.

Wat denken jullie ? Maken ze deel van de berberse identiteit of niet ?
Cultuur / The "Barbs" berber horses
10/04/2005 om 15:59:07
Originally, the "Barb horses", Berber in this case, was used for war by the Moorish, Numidians, the Carthaginians, and by Julius Caesar to conquer Gaules. This horse shone during centuries and particularly in 1870, in the middle of the Frensh-german war disaster. But it’ s singularly at the time of the first world war 1914-1918, in Macedonia, where it will bring the proof of its exceptional qualities. And more recently the German army will open the doors of Moscow with Barbs requisitioned in Tunisia by Rommel.

When the "Barbs" berber horses put an end to the war 1914-1918:

Called horse of Barbary by the Romains authors there is more than 2000 years, the Barb was always breed in Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and for a long time in France. Physically very enduring and supporting without sorrow all the deprivations, it very early left the countries of the cradle of race to radiate in Italy, Spain and France under the saddle of badly known warriors, therefore designated under the name of Barbares who was pareillement allotted to the barbs.

According to several assumptions, one advances that its admission in North Africa dates from the second millennium before JC, but some bones going back to 4000 years and more were discovered in layers in Algeria. Let us add to that the cave paintings and engravings representing the horses which were discovered in Hoggar, Tassili and in Kabylia.

One believes that the Libyan inaugurated the tradition of the chariot games in honour of the drivers of chariot, in particular female which gave rise to the myth of Athena (Tineiht, become Neith in Egypt, Athena in Greece and Minerva in Rome), goddess of the war and the reason at the same time symbolized by the victorious girl at the chariot games.

In all cases, in North Africa, the horse forms integral part of human life, in all its history. Strabon (58 before JC, 25 after JC) reported in its writings how the Numidian riders of North Africa rode their horses "sans brake": without harnessing, without enrennement, without bit, which is remarkable. Only sometimes a cord around the neck could be used to slow down or direct some horses. "Since 1550, in Venice a book containing a chapter "The description of Africa" speak about the barbs " These horses are called in Italy : Barberi, and it is thus in all Europe, because they come from "Barbaria". They are species born in the country... ". This country is North Africa. One remembers that king Louis imported stallions from Barbaria for his Xaintonge and Auvergne provinces.

The barb has an exceptional mental, calm and explosive at the same time. Lymphatic at rest, it bubbles as one requests it, it’ s a false cold temperament combined with a true intelligence.

Zie meer: http://www.emazighen.com/The-Barbs-berber-horses

Cultuur / Berberse namen
09/04/2005 om 22:53:22